Question about mod tools and techniques

[MandelSoft]

So I finally got over this annoyance...



One done, a dozen or so to go...

[anonymson]

Great work MandelSoft, now it almost looks like the real thing, just some minor adjustments needed, but I can probably live without those.

[MandelSoft]

A small idea that could benefit a lot to the realism of the map and for users of the map:



Custom painted road arrows! I got the idea from the painted markings on the map in Denmark. While it was used there to add directions to the road, it gave me the idea to do something with that with road painted arrows. Their practical use is very diverse and this could be very helpful at custom interchanges or other vague situations.

I'm planning to add more arrow styles, each one representing the countries included on the map.

Best,
MandelSoft

[anonymson]

Fantastic! Looking forward to it!

[Cadde]

Ok, in the beginning i just didn't want to touch this thread because i thought you where just being abusive towards the promods team.
But with all these new additions you have presented i have grown to respect you and i would love to see your work implemented in this map.
It helps being humble and showing off your good side and then you can make "demands" after the fact you have gained some leeway.

That's also why this thread has been so silent (IMHO) but now i think it's going to take off.
Keep up the good work!

EDIT: Oh and i really have to say those arrows are one of those things that i have been missing dearly in ETS. And i totally agree with the signs issue you have been so brash about. I want to be able to trust that the lane i am going in will take me to where i want to go instead of having to throw myself over lanes in the last second as i realize the signs isn't correct.

As a standalone mod, i would love it if you or anyone else could fix all those situations so i won't have to stay in the overtaking lane all the time just to be sure.

P.S.
I can't read the signs in Finland at all. The text is too small and too high up in the air and the signs reflect sunlight like crazy making it even more difficult to read them.
But that might also be due to the "realistic lightning" mod part of the PR mod pack...
Still, the text is too small for this game IMHO and i have to be right at the sign to have a chance to read it in Finland.

[MandelSoft]

Ok, in the beginning i just didn't want to touch this thread because i thought you where just being abusive towards the promods team.

Yes, I agree I started off rude. This may come that I'm also from a different modding community (I'm kind of a big name in the SimCity 4 modding community) and being used to mod a lot myself, I'm kind of a person who likes to deal with problems and replace the stuff I don't like or find realistic with stuff that qualify those aspects.

At the time, I was kind of frustrated that:
1. I felt like I was being ignored and that my advise was not valued with replies like: "no-one complained about this so this is not an error"
2. I didn't have the tools to correct the things myself.
3. The map editor kept on crashing for me.
4. The example material in the Scandinavia Map mod is encrypted, so I couldn't look inside the files for examples how they did certain stuff. Coming from an open modding community of SimCity 4, this was new for me. In the SimCity 4 community, we just have "Social control" against plagiarism by means of centralised and trusted distribution channels like the STEX, LEX and PLEX. Here quite some modders are paranoid against "mod theft" to sometimes unreasonable levels (map editors are most notorious for this) and all mods are offered off-site by various means, so there's little control.
5. I experienced problem #1, #2 and #4 before in this community on another website, which I left a while ago and quit modding this game for a while.

But I'm persistent, so I started off with solving problem #2. I found a plugin for Blender to import and export SCS models (new problem: how the heck does Blender work. Took me quite a few hours before I got familiar with the program) and as you can see, so far so good.

Now that I got rid of all three problems, things seem to have settled down. I'm calmed down, I get positive comments and most of all: it satisfies me that I can deal with the problems that bother me.

I'm a Road Geek, and therefore I think I do have kind of a OCD for correcting incorrect signage, streetlights and such. But now I have the tools at hand, I think we can benefit all from this.

P.S.
I can't read the signs in Finland at all. The text is too small and too high up in the air and the signs reflect sunlight like crazy making it even more difficult to read them.
But that might also be due to the "realistic lightning" mod part of the PR mod pack...
Still, the text is too small for this game IMHO and i have to be right at the sign to have a chance to read it in Finland.

I wouldn't know. I haven't been to Finland yet...

[ScuL]

The problem with the Finnish signs is that they are all bilingual and that the text is very small in real life as well.
We have opted to put 2 city names (Swedish & Finnish) in 1 overlay texture, which makes them "small", but if you were to put them in 2 separate files, you wouldn't have the required space to put all the overlays on the sign.

[Cadde]

In real life i have no issues reading the signs from far away but this is a game and as such you are limited by a number of factors. The main one being screen resolution. I am running 1920x1200 and that is quite a lot of pixels but still, stuff gets pixelated at distance in any game.

So my idea would be to make the signs larger (even if not necessarily realistic) just to accommodate for the lack of detail at distance.
Another way would be to "pick your poison" where you can decide if you want to have multi-lingual signs, Finnish only or Swedish only signs. You simply activate an alternative mod file when you want that.
Of course i could just go into the texture files and modify them to my liking... Or can i? (Not meant to be rude, just saying)

Even so, there are plenty of signs even in the standard ETS map that i have issues reading at the distance i would like to and thus have to resort to the GPS to find my way around and sometimes i just want to find my way without using the GPS.

So in the end i would like larger signs all round or excessive signage that are closer to the viewpoint of the driver because it's a game and it's limited to certain extents.

-----------------------------------------

@MandelSoft:

I hear you about the "strict" modding community, i personally am all for openness and i would rather slit my wrists than protect my modding work.
If people want to steal my work then so be it, a proper modder will be recognized by his contributions and the fakers will be covered in shame by those in the community that matters.
If some random person on the internet wants to thank someone who stole my work then so be it... I am releasing my work for free anyways, it's not like i am losing out because someone decides to release my free content elsewhere.

I am (or I'd like to think that) known for my contributions in the past. I have made mods and tools for free and provided source material/code and assistance to anyone asking and in return all i ask for is a mention if they alter and re-release my work. I am not going to be picky about it, if they decide to change 5% of it and release it without mentioning me then once again, fine... So be it. I am just happy if the community as a whole is happy.

That said, if there is one thing i can't stand as a modder/coder/whatever it is ignorance. People who don't know what they are talking about but act like they do and expect others to do their dirtywork for them as if it was their jobs.
People that demand that things are to be done because THEY have a need for it to be done.
I am all for helping people help themselves and many times i offer to do something for someone else as long as they are asking nicely and respect that it might not even happen or might take some time.

I also feel you on the "lack of tools" and "lack of documentation". My philosophy is that if you made something (a game in this case) then you provide the tools and documentation for it. The developers have lots to gain from an active and well informed modding community. I would not have bought ETS2 if it wasn't for some of the mods that exist for it. It took quite a while to actually make my decision on purchasing the game and prior to that i was playing a... Let's say, less expensive copy of the game.

...

On the other hand of the spectrum, if a modder feels he needs to protect his work for whatever reason then that is entirely his or hers decision.
One thing the community needs to "learn" is to respect the modders decision no matter how absurd those decisions may seem.
The modders put several hours of their time into making the content and as such they always have the final say in what that content is going to be used for.
It doesn't matter if someone is sitting on the other side of the fence drooling over the content provided in the mod and wants to have it.

The way i think of it is like this, if everyone has access to the best knowledge and tools then you are no longer going to be special in the community and you won't get as much praise and respect for your work because there are so many other modders that have piggybacked on your hard work and releases content that pretty much matches your own because they learned from you and used your own work "against you".

Now, i am not greedy so i don't necessarily agree with such a mentality but i respect it.
For me, it's all about "I am happy if you are happy" and that is what i go on when spending my hours making stuff.

[MandelSoft]

Well, I've decided to release what I've got so far, MandelSoft's Minor Mod Pack v0.1, designed to be used with the Scandinavia Map Mod and with map editing in mind:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8Tb6LV ... sp=sharing

This pack contains the following components (components marked in italic bold with an * have immediate effect because they are overrides):

- Shorter road stripes*
2:1 instead of the standard 1:1 stripes. 2:1 and 3:1 is more common around the world, especially in Europe
- New sign models:
--- Germany, 2 lanes split advance sign
--- Germany, 3 lanes, 1 lane exits*
--- Germany, 3 lanes, 1 lane exits, advance sign*
- New streetlight models:
--- PL, city, single sided*
--- PL, motorway, single sided
--- PL, motorway, double sided*
--- NL, city, single sided
--- NL, city, double sided
--- NL, motorway, single sided
--- NL, motorway, double sided*
--- SE, motorway, single sided*
--- SE, motorway, double sided*
--- BE, city, double sided
- Painted road arrows:
--- Lane drop left
--- Lane drop right
--- Left turn
--- Right turn
--- Thru lane
--- Left + right turn
--- Thru lane + left turn
--- Thru lane + right turn
--- All turn Lane
(Currently one design only. Implementing other designs gives some unexpected and random results. DDS-textures are however included.)

See the included readme for more details

Best,
Mandelsoft

[Nico]

First time Im reading this thread. Im a bit dissapointed about some remarks... I know not all is looking like irl but the problem is that there are so many different things around there that it's just impossible to make every single thing look right. I always look on google maps and than create it. Big chance that somewhere else it looks different. However I like it very much that you are not to much of an arse and trying to help out. Something I appreciate very much (you are the first one!! most people can only complain).

I have been talking with ScuL and I think it would be cool if we could do some co-op togethere to improve the game even more (and let's call it ETS3 )