Better traffic flow, curr. Hungary rebuild, and other mods

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Re: Better traffic flow (currently Hungary rebuild)

Postby MandelSoft » 11 Jan 2017 20:22

You really want to know what I think? Well, I'll be honest then, but I warn you this is not what you may like to hear.

First of all, if you want to map, you have to deal with everything that comes with it. This means that not only do you have to deal with roads, but also with the landscaping, detailing, signs, optimisation and whatnot. Leaving out one of these aspects is like making a cover version of Coldplay's Viva la Vida without the string section. You may recognise it, but it's disturbingly clear that something is missing, that things are not complete. So if you map something, go all the way or go home.

Second, the things you have mapped are kind of... well... dull. Yes you have converted some SCS interchanges into custom ones, but they look rather undetailed, sloppy and outdated. This may have looked great in the ARP phase 1 era, but with the new possibilites and techniques the Scandinavia DLC and France DLC have given us, things can be a lot better. If you want to have some good examples of what's possible nowadays, just take a look at France and Belgium. I see you haven't been using Bezier patches yet, which I use a heck of a lot lately for my landscaping. I also haven't seen free node rotation to make your curves more fluent. Futhermore, I miss finishing touches like vegetation, stamps, fences, signs and proper bridge heads.

Third, on a technical level, you have a clash of assets. You use the short FLD prefabs (which by the way slow down traffic a lot and often cause bad merging behaviour) with our new prefabs (which are longer, have markings fitting with the new road templates and have a better traffic flow). Since we have a proper set of these prefabs and road templates, we mainly use the new prefabs. We also use our own road templates wherever we can. You should do the same, or otherwise you work will soon look outdated.

Finally, on a larger scale, just rebuilding the interchanges won't cut it if you want to go for more realism; you must be able to learn yourself the skills for more advanced stuff, like building towns and cities, optimisation, etc., but also do a lot of research about common practices in the countries you're building and master balancing representation of an area against aestetics, playability and what makes sense at this scale. You really need to have a good feeling for this to make it work properly, so not only that it works good on a technical level, but also is good for playing and looks good. That's what seperates good modders from the wannabes.

Well, that's it for now. I hope you'll learn some things from this post...
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Re: Better traffic flow (currently Hungary rebuild)

Postby Zniwek » 11 Jan 2017 21:32

cdawg9999 wrote:I'm finding your instructions difficult to follow and unclear

I have to agree. I don't have problems when installing mods I'm the one who helps others but here I got lost. I can spend more time to realize what I've done wrong but other users don't have experience that will allow them to solve it themselves ;)
All files in 1 archive is the worst idea ever, especially when using sharemods that doesn't always offer good download speed. Many users will be lost after discovering so many .scs files inside main archive.
The only thing I wanted to see, are your new interchanges in Hungary. How to get it? It's in Hungary so it shouldn't require PM. But the only mod with "Hungary" in name I've found there, was for Hungary Map I guess, not for SCS Hungary.
Including 400+MB of assets is pointless as we already mentioned.
And your instructions are not clear as you already know - writing good steps to follow can be hard. You know everything about your mod and files that you placed in archives but others have no idea. It has to be clear, easy to find and apply ;)
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Re: Better traffic flow (currently Hungary rebuild)

Postby brainiac » 11 Jan 2017 23:29

I suppose that you won't answer, but I am sure that you will read, so I will answer.
MandelSoft wrote:You really want to know what I think? Well, I'll be honest then, but I warn you this is not what you may like to hear.

Definitely, better is to hear true than living in lie.
MandelSoft wrote:First of all, if you want to map, you have to deal with everything that comes with it. This means that not only do you have to deal with roads, but also with the landscaping, detailing, signs, optimisation and whatnot. Leaving out one of these aspects is like making a cover version of Coldplay's Viva la Vida without the string section. You may recognise it, but it's disturbingly clear that something is missing, that things are not complete. So if you map something, go all the way or go home.

All my work is primarly for my personal using, but I asked myself, why not to share with people who want it. Just 10 satisfied players is enough. I don't have ambitions to completely rebuild any part of vanilla map, just want better traffic flow and as less as possible standard interchanges.
MandelSoft wrote:Second, the things you have mapped are kind of... well... dull. Yes you have converted some SCS interchanges into custom ones, but they look rather undetailed, sloppy and outdated. This may have looked great in the ARP phase 1 era, but with the new possibilites and techniques the Scandinavia DLC and France DLC have given us, things can be a lot better. If you want to have some good examples of what's possible nowadays, just take a look at France and Belgium. I see you haven't been using Bezier patches yet, which I use a heck of a lot lately for my landscaping. I also haven't seen free node rotation to make your curves more fluent. Futhermore, I miss finishing touches like vegetation, stamps, fences, signs and proper bridge heads.

I don't know for new possibilites and techniques from Scandinavia DLC and France DLC, but I will try to find.
For first 3-4 interchanges, I didn't use Bezier patches, but later I am using it more and more.
MandelSoft wrote:Third, on a technical level, you have a clash of assets. You use the short FLD prefabs (which by the way slow down traffic a lot and often cause bad merging behaviour) with our new prefabs (which are longer, have markings fitting with the new road templates and have a better traffic flow). Since we have a proper set of these prefabs and road templates, we mainly use the new prefabs. We also use our own road templates wherever we can. You should do the same, or otherwise you work will soon look outdated.

First, I read on forum that FLD are bad, but I didn't know that hw and ew are FLD. I will try to replace as much as I can.

Thank you for saying brutal true, it is much more useful than silence.

Zniwek, I will definitely reduce assets. I didn't think that instruction will so complicate. I can upload all scs files separately, if you think that it is better. Also, I can upload separately rebuilt interchanges (but they still will be in Promods part of mod).
Working on rebulding Hungarian interchanges: viewtopic.php?t=14202.
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Re: Better traffic flow (currently Hungary rebuild)

Postby Zniwek » 11 Jan 2017 23:39

Well, brainiac, I was able to check your interchanges and the biggest issue is (except for visual problems that you probably don't care about)... traffic flow. Because of FLD prefabs and sometimes too short road segments between 2 prefabs, AI is stuck in traffic jams really quickly in some places, so you should really replace those prefabs and check every interchange in game, if it's enough. I don't use any traffic mod, so if you enable more traffic, you won't be able to drive there I guess. Better traffic flow doesn't fit then, unless you fix it ;)
What I've liked personally - signs. Nice job.
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Re: Better traffic flow (currently Hungary rebuild)

Postby gibanica » 12 Jan 2017 10:31

brainiac wrote:If you want only rebuilding interchanges, delete all sectors left from +6, right from +10 and north from +3, excluding it.


I have no clue how to do that. I thought there will be "hungary interchanges mod only". I dont want to touch my other parts of map.
maybe you should split those mods, for those who just want hungary rebulided and those for traffic mod. until then unfortunatly I cant use this mod :(
Have to say your instalation read me is totally unclear, and I have no Idea what am I suppost to enable and level it up. :/

@mandelsoft

Hey, Im not holding his side, but honestly Im not finding his interchanges any worst then some promods (just some). In this mod, inclusion on high way is wide and seems ok. In pdomods italy or baltic countries, I have to grip like a cat up on the wall, through 2.1m wide access road all the way up to highway. sry if you are one of the promods team, no discuss abt the promdos quality, but some parts are supposed to be re-supervised once again though.
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Re: Better traffic flow (currently Hungary rebuild)

Postby gmtavares » 12 Jan 2017 11:50

I must say, some interchanges are great, and some are not so great, sadly. I found it hard to find the correct load order, as the read me file is confusing.
I would like to see this mod develop, as it would be useful, and cool! But there are those issues.
Braniac, great signs, and cool interchanges in general. Anything is better than what SCS had, nevertheless!
Hope to see you improving your mapping and your file packing skills! ;)
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Re: Better traffic flow (currently Hungary rebuild)

Postby ETS2-User » 12 Jan 2017 12:19

gibanica wrote:Hey, Im not holding his side, but honestly Im not finding his interchanges any worst then some promods (just some). In this mod, inclusion on high way is wide and seems ok. In pdomods italy or baltic countries, I have to grip like a cat up on the wall, through 2.1m wide access road all the way up to highway. sry if you are one of the promods team, no discuss abt the promdos quality, but some parts are supposed to be re-supervised once again though.


Basically what he said. Of course there are old areas too, but brainiac is doing new areas so he has to keep up with the standards.

MandelSoft wrote:This may have looked great in the ARP phase 1 era, but with the new possibilites and techniques the Scandinavia DLC and France DLC have given us, things can be a lot better. If you want to have some good examples of what's possible nowadays, just take a look at France and Belgium. I see you haven't been using Bezier patches yet, which I use a heck of a lot lately for my landscaping. I also haven't seen free node rotation to make your curves more fluent. Futhermore, I miss finishing touches like vegetation, stamps, fences, signs and proper bridge heads.
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Re: Better traffic flow (currently Hungary rebuild)

Postby brainiac » 12 Jan 2017 13:26

I am planning to replace FLD prefabs with new, then to upload almost all files separately. Do you all want to first upload without replaced, and after with replaced prefabs?
Working on rebulding Hungarian interchanges: viewtopic.php?t=14202.
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Re: Better traffic flow (currently Hungary rebuild)

Postby gibanica » 12 Jan 2017 17:08

I d love to..you can replace it later..
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Re: Better traffic flow (currently Hungary rebuild)

Postby brainiac » 12 Jan 2017 18:07

Ok, then don't expect later than tomorrow. I am starting it now.
Realising 10 separate map mods have advantage. When one map will update, I don't have to update all maps, but only one.
For ferry-addon maps, what is better:
- to delete Europe and put vanilla map if someone want to retrieve it or
- to not delete Europe and put Deleted Europe if someone want to drive only on ferry-addon map(s)?
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