what hardware is needed to run PM2.26 maxed out and smooth

[tomsun66]

Hello MandelSoft, good to read you!
For me or perhaps also a few other users in a nutshell.

Is it a promods or a scs problem?

Do we cover the lack of power by installing a Multi GPU solution (3* 1080 ti), by installing the new Threadripper 64 core/128 threads CPU, or by the new Intelbeast with 17 (seventeen) GHz (double lightspeed singlecore performance)

yes i know its a little bit beyond reality

If it is single core perfomance, bad news were restricted by physics, multithreading would be a solution. Does ETS2 and ATS now support multithreading or do we get there some development in the near future to cover that problem if it is one).

If it is lack of threads, we should get a solution by now as cores are getting affordable.

As you said DX11 will not bring the major solution, do we need only MORE GPUs in our system?

These Hardware topics in my opinion are to solve by SCS,

BUT the developers have to accept the restrictions the reality brings, and they should try to work for the 95 percentil or even the 75 percentil (so that 75 percent of the users can use their development in a good manner (thats means the lowest 12,5% have to live with restrictions e.g. reducing to medium or low graphics and the highest 12,5% cannot use all their system power, the y can spend the unused power to projects like SETI)

I can't imagine it is a good feeling for a developer that the users say, Promods goood Map but don't go to Barcelona or maybe once and then die. By the way i think Zagreb is going in the same direction.

So Mandelsoft do you see a solution for that in the future? And whos Job is it.
Mine : Buying reasonable Hardware (GPU, CPU) in what direction
Promods : Accepting the Limitations, actual Hardware of the masses
SCS : Adapting the Base System to the actual Hardware development (Multithreading, DX11,DX12, Vulkan)

I think you have the best inner view due to your knowledge of Promods and your work at SCS

Best Regards
Tom

[MandelSoft]

The simple fact remains that this is a problem with the map and it cannot be solved by throwing even beefier hardware towards it. We still have a few areas with issues to solve regarding performance, but even with a supercomputer from NASA, you still can't get past the current engine limitations.

The main responsbility is at ProMods, but don't expect a fix tomorrow or next week; these issues are quite complicated to solve and often don't have a clear, single source. And we need to do this while there are other projects we work on that need to be finished too...

[dkokales]

Personally, I really like Barcelona in ProMods, and don't mind the poor FPS. I really don't understand why so many people demand close to 60 fps. With my computer, ProMods runs in the mid to upper 20s fps most of the time and it looks fine to me. This is a high enough frames per second to look like smooth motion to our eyes and brains. Movies only run at 24 fps for goodness sake, and they look fine. I just never got why people complain about fps in the 20s and 30s. If it's down around 13 fps, then yeah, you'll notice it. Otherwise, I just don't see what the big issue is.

[Trucker2223]

It's possible yes, but it's seems just slow. With my old rig I usually have run games at 20 FPS to and it looked good for me. But when you get the opportunity the run games in 60 FPS you will never go back to lower FPS. And you can't compare Movies to games. On a Movie you just need to watch, so it doesn't need a high refresh rate, but on games you need to react, which need fast refresh rates. Not so much on ETS2 because it's only a truck simulator. But on racing Games like Project Cars, or other games it's important or you will loose because the game didn't ran as smooth as it should be.
So it doesn't care so much in ETS2 but in other games. And you will notice even an significant difference when it drops from 60 to 50 or 40 FPS, FPS need to be steady when it should look smooth, movies don't lag so they'll always stay at 24 FPS so it doesn't look laggy but keeping games at a steady FPS rate needs good hardware to acomplish so it always looks laggier on bad Hardware, cuz of FPS drops.

[Vøytek]

Indeed. 60fps is just so much more comfortable than 30 (or less, which I just can't imagine playing with).
It's easier to notice in games but it's also very easy to "feel" when watching videos on YouTube. Just launch a video that allows 720p in 60fps and then lower the resolution to 480p (which has 60fps disabled). The difference is obvious

Also, when playing games, everything below 60fps is just disturbing for me. Especially, that it's usually connected with annoying stuttering and slower reactions to buttons you press. In ETS2 I have 60fps when just driving on a highway, but in cities it's down to 40-50 and you can already feel it's just not behaving correctly, like you have less control over your truck.

For comparison, I launched Assassin's Creed Origins few days ago. I had ~35fps in the first few minutes of playing which was so bad for me, I just pressed ALT+F4. I'm serious. But the next day I decided to give it a chance anyway (because this PC can't handle it in 60fps, that's obvious, and I won't play on low details) and now I'm playing it in 30-60fps... It's really annoying when it drops to such a low value, making your game stutter.

As Trucker2223 said - you get used to it.
You feel like low fps is fine but it's not. When you play on somebody's PC in 60fps, you'll see that it's a whole different experience, giving you much more pleasure from gaming. In those few locations I had steady 60fps in ACO, it was a really good feeling. I can only imagine how cooler would this game be, if I could fully enjoy it I know people who played in low fps in the past. As I'm used to 60fps, I immediately notice every drop, even when others say "What? It doesn't lag at all".
It's a serious problem in online gaming. I can imagine 2 exactly same skilled players - one playing in 30fps and one playing in 60fps and I'm pretty sure that one with better framerate would win. Also, when a game stutters in low fps, it's just uncomfortable for my eyes.

Everybody has a different feeling of course but I'm sure you can tell a difference between 24/30 and 60fps in videos

[dkokales]

Thanks for the feedback, guys! Maybe someday I'll decide to put the money out for a nice game rig, see how much of a difference there is. I imagine at that point I won't want to go back either.

[tomsun66]

Hello Guys by the way here the recommendation you get on steam for ets 2 hardwarewise (same for mac and for Linux also)

SYSTEMANFORDERUNGEN
Windows Mac OS X SteamOS + Linux
MINIMUM:
OS: Windows 7
Processor: Dual core CPU 2.4 GHz
Memory: 4 GB RAM
Graphics: GeForce GTS 450-class (Intel HD 4000)
Hard Drive: 100 MB available space
RECOMMENDED:
OS: Windows 7/8.1/10 64-bit
Processor: Quad core CPU 3.0 GHz
Memory: 6 GB RAM
Graphics: GeForce GTX 760-class (2 GB)
Hard Drive: 100 MB available space

i believe a lot of us are far beyond the recommended values and will still have the fps problem.

From my feeling its not only Promods problem, but also a SCS problem. I think there has to be changed a lot in the game engine what would lead to a lot of incompatibilities with the existing Maps, DLCs and Mods.
In short terms, i think they could only fix that "problem" with a ETS3 build up from the scratch including complete new making of all DLCs and MODs.

As the majority doesn't want to give up everything they achieved, its up to the modders to accept the limitations enginewise and typical hardwarewise.

i think there was a poll end of last year to examine the hardware of the users, and also STEAM could provide such data, so it should be no problem to figure out the typical hardware configuration, and that should be the Benchmark for the modders. So there should be a defined testrig which should be able to run the map at at least minimum level. e.g. Barcelona (because its outstanding at the moment) at maxed settings (all maxed out) minimum 25 fps on Testrig (e.g i5-8600K(270€), Nvidia 1060(450€), 8GB(100€), FullHD(100€)), if a map zone didn't pass the test it shouldn't be released or should be reduced in complexity until it pass the test. Its then up to the users to reduce their settings to get a higher FPS than 25 FPS in ALL Situations. if another MOD (like AI, weather, ..) leds to low fps it should be clearly marked so that everyone can decide if he wants that framedropper.

So just my cents, but i think the proposal for the testrig configuration is not too high and shurely not to low perfomancewise.
Best Regards
Tom

[Vøytek]

From my feeling its not only Promods problem, but also a SCS problem. I think there has to be changed a lot in the game engine

Indeed, it would probably help in big cities.

So there should be a defined testrig which should be able to run the map at at least minimum level

Who's going to provide it to all developers and testers? Everybody's using his own PC, so results are different.


Barcelona shouldn't have been released in my opinion but I wasn't a part of the team back then. Our community wanted it badly, there was a big pressure as players were waiting for a long time. Optimization was done with almost every map update but without a full rebuild, it won't be much better. It was realdeal350's first big city and developers overall didn't have that much experience and knowledge about optimization. There weren't enough LOD assets available, so everything was just too detailed.

All new areas in Spain (coming in 2.3) run in 60fps for me in the editor, so I don't expect less than 50fps in game, while Barcelona is just a pain to drive through, with all that stuttering. Zaragoza and Valencia are just perfect in terms of performance (and quality too, obviously!).

[tomsun66]

hello voytek,
i think you didn't understand me right regarding the testrig and providing all developers with it.

The proposal about a decent perfomancelevel goes in that direction, if a developer says i don't know why do you have a problem my superdooper nasa rig with ten Threadripper CPUs and 8 2080ti GPUs works fine i have at least always 200 fps in Barcelona, he should have a defined perfomance level he has to approve his mod.
My strong feeling tells me that perhaps the modder never drove through Barcelona, because i cannot imagine he would acceptFPS rate below 10 fps.
And my opinion is it doesn't make sense to produce Eyecandy what only works if i reduce graphic settings to the minimum (everything low or off and scaling to 25%). Every modder should have tested his work at full graphics and should be satisfied before release.
My question is are we able to replace some KIller-Assets with low-def Assets, and we barely recognize it, only if we exactly know what assets were replaced. Or is it a general Mapping Problem? I i see Southern Region (despite the different scaling), he produces real eyecandy, yes i can also recognize a lowering of the FPS, but its still good playable.

My concerns are more in that direction, how can Promods or other Mapping Teams prevent such FPS Drops in the Future. And i think a good way is to have a commited Perfomance Level, and a Range of acceptable FPS. I accept that a Mod like Promods consumes more Perfomance than Vanilla.

In the past i had questions like that, and i got always the same riducolous proposals: The AMD CPU ist the problem, take an I5 and everything ist ok, or The Radeon is the problem take an Nvidia and everything is ok. All the typic AMD vs. Intel or AMD vs. Nvidia Bashing.

This Time is the first useful discussion in my opinion. My conclusion ist no one has mastered the problem to drive through Barcelona Graphics Maxed out at a suitable Framerate. I believe neither the Change to DX11/12 or Vulkan, nor the the Enhancement of Multithreading will bring something enginewise (a RWD remains a RWD and won't become a 4WD without substantial changes).

As Promods is constantly growing and a lot of users are asking for more eyecandy, situations like Barcelona and partly Zagreb shoulb be prevented.
I'm never asking when a new version is released, i accept the standard (its ready when its ready), i think its a good strategy, but perhaps they should not only focus on new areas (yes i also want to travel through whole of europe and perhaps northern africa and so on...)

[Vøytek]

As I said, Barcelona was pushed to the release (with small optimization from what I remember as just a player back then) because players demanded it. It requires a rebuild and that means players would have to wait another... Maybe 6 months or a year to have a nice, brand-new Barcelona with good performance. Other devs could tell you more about it.

but perhaps they should not only focus on new areas (yes i also want to travel through whole of europe and perhaps northern africa and so on...)

Improving/rebuilding old areas is happening in every version. We're not only expanding. We have eyes and we can see what looks bad. The problem is, it takes a lot of time