Germany Development

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MandelSoft
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02 Jul 2018 23:09

TimG95 wrote:
02 Jul 2018 18:32
At your place I would just update the vegetation and some road textures and replace some models.

I mean PM Hamburg is still more realistic than SCS Hamburg only the area around Köhlbrandbrücke and Elbtunnel is better.
What you propose is an over-simplification of the process and it was not the goal I had in mind. What I had in mind is to make the base map much more presentable than it is now. Because why would you rebuild Germany if it's still the same old rubish again. There would be no point in that, wouldn't it?

No, I basically was planning to take the same approach as I did in Italy: analyse what's there, retrofit new interchanges and new vegetation and textures, maybe re-align some curves to make them "flow" better and more natural and that would be quick. But after a quick inspection I concluded that this would be far from enough. The hilly, zigzagging Autobahns were so far from reality that most of them are not even salvagable (yes, there are a minor few, like the BAB19, that I could re-use, even partially). In fact, there were some really, really big design problems...

The biggest one I had to tackle first was that the BAB7 passed Hamburg on the East side of the city! As you know, it passes Hamburg on the West, with a tunnel even, but none of this was present in the base map. So I did the only thing I could do at that point: start over again. From scratch. And put in the Elbtunnel in there, because if you're going to start over, you might as well do it right this time and benefit from all the new tools, systems and knowledge available today. I still took the old city of Hamburg and rotated it, so that it would orient into the right direction, where the port is, and at the same time I really had to do some trickery that the two sceneries (the Kohlbrandbrucke and the driveable city) were kept apart due to performance reasons (PM Hamburg isn't quite... light). If draw calls and triangle count says nothing to you, they can be a pain in the ass, even for ProMods. They are indicators of how much the game is demanding from the GPU and unlike FPS, they are not system-dependent. Remember, ETS2 still has to be playable on a potato PC.

Also, you tend to forget how old the ARP is. I can find posts from back in 2014 about the construction of this region in the ARP and from a technical level, this part of the ARP is getting really, really old and is in need for replacement. And hey, I might as well do it properly at SCS so that not only ProMods, but all ETS2 players benefit from it. Because that's what my end goal is: to make Germany better for all players. And a better vanilla game will also lead to an even better ProMods. I don't see any losers in this approach...
TimG95 wrote:
02 Jul 2018 18:32
And all the prfabs and roads in PM are already country specific, so no need to replace them.
The road markings on country roads that SCS made are not realistic, in PM they are. Only highways were made correct by SCS.
Are you sure about that? I'm personally overseeing this effort, and I've been really hammering using correct markings. Show me an example where it goes wrong then.
Furthermore, even PM gets some of these wrong as well...
TimG95 wrote:
02 Jul 2018 18:32
And some roads like B 71 and Uelzen had already been updated. I would just continue.

SCS Germany is for those who mostly play default map .

And the newest parts of promods are so good that they don't need updates. Nico and FH-Fahrer made a very great job.
We still have to mix and match which parts to keep (and update) and which parts to replace. As it currently stands, Rostock can go for sure (the new SCS version is likely far superior than what PM has right now), but the rest needs futher discussion within the team. Oh, and by the way, when I have time left, I may get Kreuz Rostock fixed as well. Not making any promises, but if my schedule allows it for this task to be squeezed in, I may be able to manage it...
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dclark12553
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03 Jul 2018 00:08

So ProMods ARP is going to be kept with only certain parts being replaced with the SCS rebuild of Germany.

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brainiac
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03 Jul 2018 00:40

I hope so. Promods Rostock (and many other German cities) are still vanilla and this is good oportunity to "rebuild" them. But I hope that most of Promods Autobahns will stay.
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Nathan_A_RF
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03 Jul 2018 10:16

We will replace bits of ProMods with SCS; we will replace bits of SCS with ProMods; or we will merge the two. We won't decide until we see what's there properly.
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Devilagent
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03 Jul 2018 17:06

No rush..just keep Promods ARP as long as possible..FH-fahrer did a great job in that area..I hope he will continue his style

TimmyTurner95
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03 Jul 2018 22:27

@MandelSoft:

about the road markings: the highways look very good, but the country roads have the same middle line like the country roads in dlc it
this is the example you asked for. Or did I see sth. wrong in the videos or is all the video content still W.I.P. ?

Rostock is good by SCS but still needs rebuild by Promods, because moost companies are outside of Rostock and not in the southern part of the city.
And not to forget B 105 /B 103 .
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Shiva
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04 Jul 2018 00:06

TimG95, B 105 /B 103?
My wish would be to have those, including the tunnel.
Road wish list. City centre lovers might hate me ;)
MandelSoft wrote:
02 Jul 2018 23:09
I still took the old city of Hamburg and rotated it, so that it would orient into the right direction, where the port is, and at the same time I really had to do some trickery that the two sceneries (the Kohlbrandbrucke and the driveable city) were kept apart due to performance reasons (PM Hamburg isn't quite... light). If draw calls and triangle count says nothing to you, they can be a pain in the ass, even for ProMods. They are indicators of how much the game is demanding from the GPU and unlike FPS, they are not system-dependent. Remember, ETS2 still has to be playable on a potato PC.
I think people forget that SCS have to think about "Potato PC's", while ProMods etc can be a tiny bit more lax about it.
MandelSoft wrote:
02 Jul 2018 23:09
Oh, and by the way, when I have time left, I may get Kreuz Rostock fixed as well. Not making any promises, but if my schedule allows it for this task to be squeezed in, I may be able to manage it...
Speaking for myself, that is a low prio wish :)
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Noah_Lukas
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04 Jul 2018 16:52

Shiva wrote:
04 Jul 2018 00:06
My wish would be to have those, including the tunnel.
City centre lovers might hate me
Well you'll see than how Rostock is going to look like in the next update.
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MG Mike
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06 Jul 2018 20:51

Hello,

Poor Mandel soft... What an unthankful situation now..

Started in the past with the promods team to make a better map with a better germany for ETS2, and Promods did a fantastic job. I live in Northern Germany. I was happy to see Bremerhaven on the map. I started there a career and noticed that my company starts in Spaden a village near Bremerhaven. And I reconized at once the junction with the Volvo Dealer and the intersection to A27. The "Cherbourger Strasse" which leads into the town and further to the port area. Even this place is so little in the game and the real Bremerhaven has more intersections so it is all real well done.

The northern Germany all in all is really well done by Promods. The landscape is close to reality. Very close. And even Hamburg for example is way to big for this scale it looks fantastic. And the drivable Köhlbrandbrücke is a nice touch. As well as Berlin. At the Promodsmap I had really the feeling to drive in a big big city.. The Berliner Ring with the interchanges and the Autobahn directly through the town... Just aweyome

And now SCS made the decision for a German rebuilt, but unfortunately you are forced to make it beside as the work for another map dlc is going on..

So you and a handful other have to make a better map than the previous Germany is, which is it now after your rebuilt definetly. No discussion about it, but you have not enough time and manpower to make it good as it is at promods.

So the comparison for the 'normal' gamer who plays without mods is a very better and beatyfuller map now.
But for us Promods user it is not what we expected and you have to explain why it is as it is over and over again..
And you will probably rework your rework to match the high promods quality for the good of all promods user..

Unfortunately I am one of those people too who mean north germany should stay in Promods as it is. Please let Hamburg in Promods as it is... Take that new Bridge and make it drivable. Take that new Elbtunnel which looks very awesome, both of them. But let Hamburg be Hamburg. And keep the good Berlin. Polish the textures if you can. Use the new Parts of Germany where it makes really sense, port at Lübeck/Travemünde for example..

Is eventually the A1 to Fehmarn and the ferry to Danmark planed in the official rebuilt? If yes there is chance to improve that area. Make a better Fehmarn a nicer Sundbridge. Ostholstein is a very nice place..

But if not please keep it and improve it at Promods..

However it must be a very difficult issue for one side to built such things at your job under limitations and time pressure and on the other side to built same things again only better and more detailed as a free time hobbie under the strength eyes of Promodsfans, who do not want to lose your good work they are used to.

I wish you all the best and much success for that.
kindly regards
MG Mike

Edit: I have read that the Grafik engine is to be changed. Is within this change a chance for a wider sight, where buildings or Mountains like the Alps won't pop up anymore? As I bought ETS2 and played the first times one year ago I mean I had a very wide sight mountains and Bildiungs were viewable even if they were still far in front of me.. But meanwhile it is not so. Approaching Frankfurt now the Towers plopping up... Approaching the Alps in Austria or swizzerland they are "building themselves up" while I am approaching them..it would be really nice if this would be fixed in some time.
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MandelSoft
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06 Jul 2018 23:53

^^^ Don't forget that the ARP is by this time four years old and we have invested a lot of time in it with several developers. If you put that into perspective with SCS, where we had done this in just five months with only two or three people actually mapping (of which the first two months it was just me doing all the work), you can see that there's not enough time to do all what ProMods has done throughout the years. At least, not for now...
TimG95 wrote:
03 Jul 2018 22:27
@MandelSoft:

about the road markings: the highways look very good, but the country roads have the same middle line like the country roads in dlc it
this is the example you asked for. Or did I see sth. wrong in the videos or is all the video content still W.I.P. ?
Oh, that were indeed the road markings from Italy in the Hamburg-Osnabruck video, which are indeed wrong. That road was done by a colleague when I was on holiday. I have corrected it on Wednesday when I had access to the sectors, since we have dedicated German lines for that. There's no footage of the correct lines, I'm afraid, but trust me, they look more German. In fact, we even have a "warning line" variant for 50 km/h (or slower) roads, blind curves or when a passing restriction is coming up (often accompanied by lane merge arrows)
TimG95 wrote:
03 Jul 2018 22:27
Rostock is good by SCS but still needs rebuild by Promods, because moost companies are outside of Rostock and not in the southern part of the city.
And not to forget B 105 /B 103 .
Well, ProMods did very little in Rostock itself at this point so the current SCS version will be better (in fact, there's one thing that hasn't been shown yet that is better in the SCS version than in the current ProMods version, and the old SCS map version for that matter).
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