Development on version 1.x (Current Map Improvements)

[MandelSoft]

I am not convinced by what I've seen when it comes to Bundesstraßen signs. (e. g. here). Somehow, they are a bit too tremendous. This is what they actually look like:
<snip>

Those signs are signs from the old system. These are less flexible than the new set we have now. An example:

I've also noted a sign saying "zur B100" or something like that. Instead of writing "B100" the [100] overlay would've been used in reality, I think.

I've actually seen that this is not consistent throughout Germany. I've seen the following variants.
1. Just a route shield
2. A striped route shield
3. "Zur [#] (normal)"
4. "Zur [#] (striped)"
5. "Zur #"
So there is not just one correct way...

Inconsistencies make some signage sets hard to replicate. Germany is actually quite consistent. However, countries like Italy, Belgium and Austria are very inconsistent. This will pose us quite some difficulties in recreating those signs.

- Another thing I miss is real German Ortseingangsschilder - the signs telling you which city, town or village you've just entered. In the game they are too small and simple. This is what they actually look like:

<snip>

Not yet created, but I REALLY like to have those!

If an Autobahn splits, imo there is no Ausfahrt sign (like here, if the right side is an Autobahn, too).

Already noticed and this will be corrected.

- At small exits 40 km/h signs, that are otherwise untypical, might be common in Germany. If leading to an Autobahn, I would rather use general signs instead of those here (and not on both sides.) By the way, in Germany the Autobahn signs are placed already at the beginning of the road leading to the Autobahn, as far as I know.

Agreed. I'd use speed limit signs here signing the new limit in this situation rather than the end of speed limit signs. The only exception is when you enter a section with no speed limit.

Signs before tunnels are usually brown. I've seen a wrong blue one on a screenshot showing the Elbetunnel. This is what it really looks like:

This differs per region. On the BAB81, they are blue. This is what I based mine upon:

Generally, rivers and streams are indicated with brown signs, on Autobahns as well as in cities.

Already taken care of:

It's nice that you rebuilt the Ruhr area but I think, Oberhausen instead of Essen wasn't such a good idea. I know this is due to the lack of space but I wouldn't mind to have Essen at the place of Oberhausen even though this would be geographically inaccurate. Essen has a lot more inhabitants and I think the map should regard this. My idea would be to make the area Oberhausen/Mühlheim/Essen a connected city with specific signs - in map view this could be a single city which I would suggest Essen being the name for. The geography of the Ruhr area might support this, here is a map.

Oberhausen is built with the Netherlands in mond. Both on the BAB2 and the A12/BAB3, Oberhausen is prominently present on signs and I think in the Netherlands it's more well-known than Essen. It was actually a hard decision how we were going to name this city, but usually it was either Oberhausen or Bochum. In the end, we decided to stick to Oberhausen...

The same thing goes for Bad Oeynhausen. Nice that you constructed it, but don't make it an official city in map view. I think, this would be irritating in geographical respects for me as it's really not a big city. It could belong to Minden or Detmold in map view, provided these cities are included in game. If not, I'd rather assign the companies there to the next bigger city nearby that is in the same federal state.

As far as I know, Bad Oeynhausen will be a scenery city. It's there, because the BAB30 is not completed there and the traffic has to go through the town. This is a quite characteristic stretch...

Best,
MandelSoft

[M4rkus]

Thank you for your answer. It's great to see your detail knowledge. Probably you got around more than I did.

Those signs are signs from the old system. These are less flexible than the new set we have now. An example:
<image>

It looks not bad but somehow it still doesn't feel real. I can't say for sure why but probably it's too pale and its font is too big. Furthermore, I think the shape (low position and very wide but not very high) is not typical. I think, typically their height is larger than their width (as in my example).

I've actually seen that this is not consistent throughout Germany. I've seen the following variants.
1. Just a route shield
2. A striped route shield
3. "Zur [#] (normal)"
4. "Zur [#] (striped)"
5. "Zur #"
So there is not just one correct way...

Didn't know that. But ... what you mean by normal and striped? However, I can't remember to have seen 5th one, which doesn't have to say much, though.

Signs before tunnels are usually brown. I've seen a wrong blue one on a screenshot showing the Elbetunnel. This is what it really looks like: <brown one>

This differs per region. On the BAB81, they are blue. This is what I based mine upon:
<blue one>

Interesting! thought "nice try" – but they are real indeed. Another example that you knew more than I. However, for the Elbtunnel I think you should take the brown one because of my proof picture. And by the way, the Rhein sign is great

Oberhausen is prominently present on signs and I think in the Netherlands it's more well-known than Essen. It was actually a hard decision how we were going to name this city, but usually it was either Oberhausen or Bochum. In the end, we decided to stick to Oberhausen...

Quite a strange decision. Essen is the largest city of Germany that's not ingame (8th largest of Germany). Even in vanilla game I'd rather want to have Essen than Duisburg. If the city area of called-Oberhausen-now is big enough why not making it several cities as it's in reality, too? Or you could turn Duisburg into Duisburg/Oberhausen (named Duisburg in map view) and transform Oberhausen into Essen/Bochum (named Essen in map view). Then you could keep the signs from the Netherlands.

As far as I know, Bad Oeynhausen will be a scenery city. It's there, because the BAB30 is not completed there and the traffic has to go through the town. This is a quite characteristic stretch...

That's great. I like scenery cities and smaller towns. I just don't want them to pop up in the official map. I wasn't sure as Nico said he might add some garages to make it a full city. Wouldn't do that, though.

[MandelSoft]

It looks not bad but somehow it still doesn't feel real. I can't say for sure why but probably it's too pale and its font is too big. Furthermore, I think the shape (low position and very wide but not very high) is not typical. I think, typically their height is larger than their width (as in my example).

That's because your sign contains more lines of text. That's why it's taller than wide. Also, the colours hare off due to my HDR settings. This is the sign at its brightest. However, the text and images are unable to have a specular effect like that, so they are not affected like that. The effect in other directions is less noticeable.

Didn't know that. But ... what you mean by normal and striped?

A striped shield looks like this: https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.523528,1 ... !2e0?hl=nl

Quite a strange decision. Essen is the largest city of Germany that's not ingame (8th largest of Germany). Even in vanilla game I'd rather want to have Essen than Duisburg. If the city area of called-Oberhausen-now is big enough why not making it several cities as it's in reality, too? Or you could turn Duisburg into Duisburg/Oberhausen (named Duisburg in map view) and transform Oberhausen into Essen/Bochum (named Essen in map view). Then you could keep the signs from the Netherlands.

As I said before, the decision is hard. It's still hard. Maybe we do need to reconsider this...

Best,
MandelSoft

[plykkegaard]

... Maybe we do need to reconsider this

Space and second which city has the most companies IRL
Not really fun if Essen has to be relocated due to lack of space

[Wolfpig]

As far as I know, Bad Oeynhausen will be a scenery city. It's there, because the BAB30 is not completed there and the traffic has to go through the town. This is a quite characteristic stretch...

Best,
MandelSoft

And the Bab30/Umgehungsstraße (guess it is the same not sure at the moment) won't be finished so soon too.....but a few years does not matter, since they are planning/trying to build it only for at least +20 years.......

[M4rkus]

That striped shield seems exotic to me as well. Maybe I lack some knowledge of other places' signs 8)

... Maybe we do need to reconsider this

Space and second which city has the most companies IRL
Not really fun if Essen has to be relocated due to lack of space

Well, if they considered to call the city Oberhausen or Bochum, Essen might not be the worst choice as it's in between. Nice that you at least think about it.

That's because your sign contains more lines of text. That's why it's taller than wide. Also, the colours hare off due to my HDR settings. This is the sign at its brightest. However, the text and images are unable to have a specular effect like that, so they are not affected like that. The effect in other directions is less noticeable.

Anyhow, I think, they would be at a higher place (not so near the ground) and with everything a bit smaller (font, shield, arrows). Could be that a diagram sign or arrow signs would be prefered in that case. I don't really know. Something doesn't fit.

[Hektor123]

... Maybe we do need to reconsider this

Space and second which city has the most companies IRL
Not really fun if Essen has to be relocated due to lack of space

Well, if they considered to call the city Oberhausen or Bochum, Essen might not be the worst choice as it's in between. Nice that you at least think about it.

Why do you want so desperate Essen? Personally, I think Oberhausen is a great idea. If you drive from the Netherlands to Germany, the only thing you see on the signs is Oberhausen (sometimes Duisburg if you drive near Venlo). I would love to drive to Oberhausen from the Netherlands, especially when the team makes Arnhem with the A12. I know Essen is bigger, but for infrastructure Oberhausen is much more important, because of the "Kreuz Oberhausen", the junction between the BAB3 and the BAB2.
Just let the team decide which city they are gonna make They will make the city they think is the best city to add to this wonderful map

[M4rkus]

Just let the team decide which city they are gonna make

I didn't say anything else. I'm just putting in input to discuss. Why do I want Essen? Because Essen is ranked 8th in Germany by inhabitants, whereas Oberhausen is 34th.

[plykkegaard]

København/copenhagen is the largest city in Denmark but the city has no large concentration of companies/logistics
I'd rather see one of the factory areas in the suburbs, the city itself can be a scenery which would resemble RL perfectly
Think transportation not citizens

[Superdavecan]

Personally I support including Essen over Oberhausen. In real life when I've taken the ICE train into Germany, I've wondered why Oberhausen is even one of the stops on that route, since Duisburg is so close! It really is too close to Duisburg to include, to be honest... I just quickly measured some road distances on Google Maps:

Duisburg - Oberhausen: 15 km. Way too close
Duisburg - Essen: 23 km
Duisburg - Bochum: 38 km
Dortmund - Bochum: 23 km
Dortmund - Essen: 37 km
Duisburg - Dortmund: 59 km

Essen and Bochum are too close to each other, and only one will fit. If it has to be one of them then I would rather have Essen, since it's a more important city.
Honestly though, I'm surprised any of them fit Although, if it is possible to jam any of Oberhausen, Essen, or Bochum in between Duisburg and Dortmund, then it is clearly possible to build all of Utrecht, Eindhoven and Arnhem in the Netherlands:

Utrecht - Amsterdam: 40 km (although actually 31 along the A2, between the junction with the A12 and the junction with the A10)
Utrecht - Rotterdam: 61 km
Utrecht - Eindhoven: 88 km
Utrecht - Arnhem: 64 km
Eindhoven - Arnhem: 84 km
Eindhoven - Antwerp: 86 km
Eindhoven - Rotterdam: 111 km

It IS possible. And we all know how nice it would be to have more Dutch representation on the map, especially considering that a lot of the developers are Dutch!

We all know that the 1:19 scale is brutal though. Perhaps it would make more sense not to build any new cities in the Ruhr area, and just focus on improving the connections between the existing cities. Even right now, there are still four cities all very close to each other, so I wouldn't be disappointed if none of Oberhausen, Essen or Bochum were built.