Operating systems discussion

[jdenm8]

8.1 did not come with the Start Menu as an option. It came with the Start Button as an option. It's effectively the same as it always was. 10 is the one coming with the proper Start Menu.

95 also gave you the option of Explorer or Program Manager, it worked with either. 8 is arguably less flexible than 95.

Server 2012 is not much more than a massive PITA. Don't get me started on 4K Sectors, RDP (or the lack of it upon first install), the fact that it doesn't install on a lot of servers without messing with it, the almost completely unused Start Screen, its RAID knock-off, the fact it killed SBS, etc.

[tkk7406]

8.1 did not come with the Start Menu as an option. It came with the Start Button as an option. It's effectively the same as it always was. 10 is the one coming with the proper Start Menu.

95 also gave you the option of Explorer or Program Manager, it worked with either. 8 is arguably less flexible than 95.

Server 2012 is not much more than a massive PITA. Don't get me started on 4K Sectors, RDP (or the lack of it upon first install), the fact that it doesn't install on a lot of servers without messing with it, the almost completely unused Start Screen, its RAID knock-off, the fact it killed SBS, etc.

Thank you. Someone's talking sense here!

[jdenm8]

I also had a long rant about how much I hate setting up Windows 8 workstations for deployment, but it was long and pretty boring.

[plykkegaard]

I am using 2012 virtualized in a large business environment as basis for SQL server and BizTalk seems adequate for this

[jdenm8]

large business environment

the fact it killed SBS

That should tell you all you need to know about how I've had to use Server 2012. It's really quite terrible.

Killing off SBS was the big one, mostly because of the things it came with and Server doesn't.

Exchange with 5 Seats was one of the major selling points. Exchange is absurdly expensive, so much so that it's completely unsaleable to Small and Medium companies. But SBS had 5 Seats and was compatible with Exchange CALs, making internalising email an incredibly appealing option.
But that's gone, so internalising email on Windows either means no Exchange (and effectively no Outlook) or forking out thousands for Exchange.

You can still get SBS, but that's SBS 2011 which is built on Server 2008 R2. The primary differences between SBS 2008 and SBS 2011 are Exchange 2010 and the version of Server 2008 it's on. 2008's on the original Vista-era Server 2008.
Office 365 Tier 2 (Tier 1 doesn't support full exchange, so you may as well go with FOSS at that point) is also a thing you can do if you're into sadism. I'm not. Also, a number of monitoring cards (Like those used in certain machines used to maintain the correct environment for certain Medical devices) aren't compatible since they can't handle Authentication.

Native 4K sector support means you can't spin up a Server 2012 backup in HyperV (Like you would do to reduce downtime in the event the server fails) on Server 2008 R2. It just can't be done, since Server 2012 will only back up to VHDX and Server 2008 R2 doesn't support that.
Additionally, since Server 2012 came out, the availably of non-4K Sector HDDs has plummeted. Going and buying a compatible drive to back up to isn't a thing you can do any more. Lots of small companies achieve off-site backup by having external HDDs that they rotate, but that's virtually not an option any more. The only manufacturer I know of still reliably producing AF-Compatible External Drives is Buffalo and their latest series of drives is incredibly expensive (double the price of a WD or Seagate drive).

Server 2012 doesn't allow RDP connections by default. They expect you to use Remote Apps which are only supported in Metro. And none of the Server management tools support Metro. So you've got to connect a monitor to the thing and re-enable RDP connections.

Did you know Server 2012/2012 R2 won't install on servers newer than it? Server 2008 doesn't care, it'll use a generic driver, but Server 2012's installer will crash until you feed it a particular file from the RAID controller drivers on the same flash drive that you're installing Server 2012 from or from a Floppy Disc.
Two problems:
Server 2012 comes on a DVD or in an ISO.
These drivers are bigger than a Floppy Disc.
Now you've got to go and make a bootable flash drive and copy the contents of the disc onto it, then pick apart the driver package to find the right one, then package it all together and fight the BIOS so it boots from the Flash Drive.
There is the third option of modifying the contents of the DVD to include the drivers then burn it to a new DVD, but that takes even longer.
It took me two days to get Server 2012 R2 installed on a G8 ProLiant. It should not be this hard.

It's 2:30am, so the rest of my 'I hate Windows 8 and Server 2012 for these reasons' list isn't coming to hand, but I really don't like it. Mostly because of how hard it is to deploy.