Background map update - discussion

[Plum™]

Please, read what i say. You won't have to rescale UK, including Ireland AT ALL!
It's solely a question of taking care of Iceland after that tick, SCS will do the rest.

Small misunderstanding from my side, my bad.

[Rafaelkai]

I don't know if it would be to much of a hassle for the ProMods team, but it would be nice if you could provide the ProMods players an optional official background map covering more places (Russia, North Africa, Kazakhstan, etc.) based on ProMods background setting so it can cover the map mods in the Recommended Maps section. Most of us player use those map mods and i don't think it would to much of a problem for you devs (contrary to reescaling or moving things) Thank you for your work and for your map.

[MandelSoft]

OK, so to get a clear picture of the discussion, I've decided to check out this so called universal background in detail. To make a fair comparison, instead of picking our background map, I pick the background map we based ours upon: the default SCS background map. I've underlayed the universal background map and I tried to make it fit in such a way that the North-South line from the tip of Denmark to the southernmost tip of Sicily fits exactly, as this gave me the best fit results.Here's the result:



The area in red is the default SCS background. As you can see, the further you get from the Prague, meridian, the bigger the deviations become:

• You can see that near Greece, you see that the islands are shifting locations. If SCS is going to make a Greece DLC, you'll have a problem.
• You can see that Ireland is located too far west. If SCS is going to make an Ireland extension, you'll have a problem.
• Turkey and Cyprus... oh boy... look at the two coastlines immediately diverge after the Bosphorus. If SCS is going to complete the rest of Turkey, you'll have a problem.
• The borders in Northern Scandinavia are going too far to the north-east. Heck, even the southernmost part of the Finnish border and the Baltic Sea coast of Finland are incorrect. I'd say you already have a problem there....

And bengt.jensie wants to implicitly enforce his norms on our map, while his own map projection is already showing compatibility problems with the original norm setter, SCS' background map?

Sorry, but we rather would future-proof our map for SCS expansions, and prevent re-alignment problems occuring when SCS brings out a DLC. Merging by itself is a hard enough task already...

[erikdaderp]

ive sent this to bengt. im gonna have to side with yall on this one.

[1337robloxkid]

I’m not sure on who’s side to stay on.

[erikdaderp]

I want to clear a couple things up.
Firstly, i have nothing personally against Bengan, nor do i have some special feelings for the promods team.
Initially, i believed bengan when he said that he followed SCS projection 1:1.
Mandelsoft's recent post proved this wrong. I initially let bengan know by linking the post by mandelsoft and saying that his map and SCS's map didnt match up anymore. Nothing hateful. This progressed into an argument. For anyone curious, it starts with my first post here http://www.roextended.ro/forum/viewtopi ... start=1040 and, for now, ends on page 108.
after sending this

he told me that scs never provided middle east map data, so i proved that claim to be wrong by sending screenshots of the default SCS map.
He then told me that his map matches perfectly with the ets2 base map, (his example was istanbul), which i tested and proved wrong with this photo.

Going off the basis that SCS's map is the standard, not promods, not bengan, not anyone, it proves that the incorrect one here is bengan. Promod's map does also have some allignment issues. neither are perfect. But Promods' map is a lot closer to SCS's map than bengans map is.
Any *major* issues are therefore caused by bengans map. Once this is fixed and bengans map allignes fully with SCS's map, we will still likely see some issues, but these will be small, and are a promods issue.
Please do not direct any hate towards him. For now i am waiting for arayas's response before i go any further, since this is his community.

TLDR: Bengan's map is very wrong. Promods' map is very slightly wrong.

[1337robloxkid]

So you’re saying that both are wrong? Oh and also, I tried the new version of the BG map but they were still the same.

[erikdaderp]

So you’re saying that both are wrong? Oh and also, I tried the new version of the BG map but they were still the same.

both are wrong, yes. but like i said, in this case promods is correct. bengan's bg is wayyyy off, like mandel said, the further you get from prague.
promods only has some minor issues here and there.
promods can be placed on the scs default map, and with the exception of iceland and svalbard, it would fit almost perfectly.

[bricksathome]

Basically, in the area that started this discussion (the Middle East area) the ProMods background lines up with the SCS background perfectly. Bengan’s map does not line up with SCS’s background map despite his claims that his map uses the same projection as SCS, which as Mandelsoft’s image shows cannot be the case.

In the post above, erikdaderp showed that Bengan’s map does not line up with the vanilla SCS map with no map mods enabled, which further strengthens the suggestion that Bengan’s map is no to using the same projection as SCS.

ProMods’s background map is also slightly incorrect in certain areas, but in these locations it is only off by a little bit and, most critically, the Middle East area lines up perfectly.

[paokkerkir]

As I said in roex forum:
To clarify things.
SCS is using Bengans BG lambert projection in def files. In game they are using a mercator projection ui map.
In the areas that scs have now in game there is almost no difference, but if they add more areas lets say in Greece or Turkey, you will start to see differences, and they will change the UI map when they do that to reflect the projection listed in the def files. That is why Bengan's map is future proof and that is why he insists the Promods placement of middle east is wrong.

The scs ui map that now goes to middle east is by no means correct, it is just there for us to see something when we scroll further away from the game map.

But, all this thing goes technical in map projections and I cannot blame promods for wanting to be in line with the scs in game map. But when the game expands by scs, promods will have to relocate things.